06/10/2020
Are you sad? Just be happy! Does this irritate you? In today’s show, Gabe and Lisa ponder whether happiness really is a choice — especially for people who struggle with mental illness. How do we measure happiness? And what is happiness inflation?
Join us for an in-depth conversation on whether or not people can actually choose happiness.
(Transcript Available Below)
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About The Not Crazy podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an As***le and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond†award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace su***de prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.
Computer Generated Transcript for “Happiness a Choice†Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.
Gabe: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Not Crazy podcast, I’m your host Gabe Howard, and with me, as always, is Lisa Kiner. Lisa, I’m inviting you to speak right now so that you know that it is your turn. This comes up more than you think when Lisa doesn’t know when she can talk. I do take some responsibility for this because, you know, I’m a talker, Lisa.
Lisa: You’re going to have to redo that, because I won’t be able to edit that because you slurred it into your words.
Gabe: I wanted you to, I wanted you to leave that there.
Lisa: Why would I leave that there?
Gabe: Because it’s funny.
Lisa: Uh-huh, it’s not that funny.
Gabe: I thought it was funny, plus I’m picking on you. I think it’s good. We’re supposed to fight more.
Lisa: We’re supposed to fight. Wait a minute. What? I’m sorry, I didn’t listen the last part. Why are we supposed to fight more?
Gabe: People like the debate, they like the acrimony, they like the frenemies, we’ve been accused of getting along too well. We haven’t created enough drama.
Lisa: Really?
Gabe: Yes.
Lisa: Someone actually said that?
Gabe: Multiple people have said this.
Lisa: Whoa! Oh, my God, this is my dream. So, you’re telling me that the goal is to fight with you more?
Gabe: The goal was always to be frenemies.
Lisa: But to specifically fight with you more? Oh, my God, I’m going to be so good at this.
Gabe: I know that’s why I picked you.
Lisa: Oh, I’ve been training for this for years.
Gabe: I thought you were uniquely qualified to not be a yes person.
Lisa: Thank you.
Gabe: I was very disturbed when people are like, yeah, the problem is, Lisa’s a yes person
Lisa: I don’t think that’s true; you just usually say that the right stuff, just not always. When you’re wrong, you’re wrong by a lot, but usually you’re good. Otherwise, I wouldn’t hang out with you because it would annoy me too much.
Gabe: Wow, I don’t know what that’s like.
Lisa: OK, going back. You said welcome. All right. Hey, everyone, see, I’m pretending like that whole thing didn’t happen. I’m just going now because I’m a professional. Don’t give me that look. Hey, everyone. Today’s quote comes to us from Abraham Lincoln. And he said, Most folks are as happy as they make up their minds to be. And he was the 16th president.
Gabe: You know, Lisa, I much preferred the quote, and I’m disappointed that you didn’t use it, which is I feel like I’m constantly worrying about the next part of my life without realizing that I’m right in the middle of what I used to look forward to. And that came from a Twitter user, Josie Vanco.
Lisa: All right, that is an absolutely brilliant quote and describes you perfectly, but yeah, I feel like you’re not really understanding the essence of the quotes. I got the 16th president, the savior of our nation. And you found one of your Twitter followers who does, in fact, say something very smart. I just really feel like you need to up your quote game. Maybe I could get you a book or a website or something. I’m better at quotes than you.
Gabe: You’re arguing with me for no reason.
Lisa: You told me to do that.
Gabe: The, it’s got to be good.
Lisa: Well, this is a burden to me.
Gabe: Let me start over.
Lisa: Can’t just turn it on and off, Gabe.
Gabe: Abraham Lincoln was obviously great, I mean, we learned about him in school and we clearly did not learn about Josie Vanco.
Lisa: His birthday is the same day as my mom’s.
Gabe: They’re about the same age.
Lisa: Ha ha.
Gabe: This quote spoke to me, like you said, it describes me to a T. Do you remember the show The Office? Remember the office? One of the quotes that one of the characters made is that the problem with it being the best years of your life is that you don’t know they’re the best years of your life when you’re living them.
Lisa: Totally true.
Gabe: I think all of us, you know, struggling with mental health issues, depression, sadness, loneliness, anxiety. We don’t know when it’s good when it’s happening. We know when we’re suffering. And then we reflect backwards and think, oh, why can’t I be like last summer when I was happy? But of course, here’s the thing. Last summer, we didn’t know we were happy. It’s only in retrospect.
Lisa: But is that true? I don’t know that last summer you were happy, though. Why? Because you’ve decided that last summer is better than this summer
Gabe: Sure.
Lisa: If you weren’t happy in the moment, how do you define happiness? If you didn’t know you were happy, are you really happy?
Gabe: It’s meta right? As you would say, it’s, ooohhh, so meta.
Lisa: You do not understand the meaning of any phrases that I use. That is not what that means.
Gabe: That’s because you use them all incorrectly.
Lisa: No, that’s not why.
Gabe: Is a box of boxes meta?
Lisa: That is totally meta, get it?
Gabe: But
Lisa: Whoa. Yeah.
Gabe: But thinking you’re happy when you’re unhappy, not meta?
Lisa: Right, something that’s meta is self-referential.
Gabe: So what if you’re happy, but then you don’t realize it until you have something to compare it to? Is that meta?
Lisa: Yeah, maybe let’s go with for the purposes of this conversation, yes. Yes, it is.
Gabe: My whole point is that last summer, I think pretty much the entire world, will say, was better.
Lisa: Because we’re doing a COVID thing?
Gabe: Well, I mean, it is, in fact related to the global pandemic, but you know
Lisa: Right, right.
Gabe: Last summer we went through the summer and it was just like, oh, we didn’t get the vacation that we wanted. The fair food wasn’t as good as we wanted it to be. You know, the concert series wasn’t good. Our sports team lost. It was a mediocre summer. And now we’re at this summer where everything’s canceled. The whole world’s going to hell and we’re starting to reflect back. And we’re like, you know, last summer wasn’t so bad. And in fact, it’s changed our perspective because a sh*tty fair is better than no fair. And a concert that is mediocre is better than no concert. So we’re starting to realize that last year was actually a pretty decent summer, but it’s only in retrospect. I think this is how happiness works for many people.
Lisa: Well, that’s how happiness works for you, but that’s part of your problem, you’re constantly comparing things, you’re always comparing yourself to other people, you’re always comparing this situation to that situation, and it’s always coming up short. That’s one of the reasons you’re unhappy.
Gabe: That’s because happiness has no definition, see, a dollar is a dollar. Gabe, do you have a dollar? I can look at my wallet and if there’s a dollar in there, the answer is yes. If there’s not a dollar in there, the answer is no. But then if somebody said, hey, Gabe, are you rich? Well, now what? How do we decide? Because I’m going to say, hey, I think having one hundred million dollars is rich, but you’re going to say, well, Bill Gates doesn’t. Bill Gates thinks that’s poverty. All right. Well, now what do we do? OK, so Bill Gates is rich, but, you know, the sultan of of who
Lisa: Brunei.
Gabe: Is the actual richest guy? The sultan of Brunei, he’s
Lisa: I think it’s Jeff Bezos now.
Gabe: Well, I don’t know. But there’s some Bill Gates is not the richest guy. So that person thinks that Bill Gates is poor. He doesn’t want to play on that level. And Jeff Bezos does, in fact, maybe have more money. But he’s not a sultan. He’s not royalty. He can’t make dictator laws. So I don’t know if Jeff Bezos has more money than the sultan of Brunei, but I do know for a fact that the sultan of Brunei has more power and influence than Jeff Bezos.
Lisa: I don’t know that that’s true.
Gabe: You know damn well that it’s true.
Lisa: Not the point of the story, though.
Gabe: Jeff Bezos does not have a military. He is not royalty. Jeff Bezos cannot go around and murder all of his people for fun. I don’t even know if the sultan of Brunei does that, but he’s allowed, whereas Jeff Bezos is not.
Lisa: Yeah, so that’s not the point of the show. Bring us back around to the happiness.
Gabe: This is my point. We can’t even determine who has more power, Jeff Bezos or the Sultan of Brunei? But you want me to determine happiness? How?
Lisa: No, not for everyone, just for you.
Gabe: Stop, stop right there, you just said, Gabe, I want you to try to determine happiness just for you, but you’ve also said do not compare yourself to other people, places or things.
Lisa: Right, right.
Gabe: How do I do it then? How do I know if I’m happy?
Lisa: You do not have this problem when it comes to recovery, we’ve talked many times about how recovery is self-defined.
Gabe: But OK, fine, so should I do happiness the way that I did recovery?
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: Because the way that I determined that I was in recovery is that my life was better this year than it was last year. I literally compared myself not only to previous examples of Gabe, but I also compared myself to others. And you just said not to do that with happiness.
Lisa: That’s how you decided you were in recovery?
Gabe: Of course,
Lisa: Seriously, that was your system?
Gabe: Yes, 100 percent, and I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Lisa: Wait, wait, wait. So, for example, the summer of COVID, or if you have a massive car accident tomorrow or if your dog dies, then suddenly you’ll no longer be in recovery?
Gabe: Well, potentially, what are my? What happens after that? And listen, when you said I got in a car accident, am I in physical pain?
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: Yeah, I’m probably not my best self. Don’t you think that’s reasonable?
Lisa: But does that mean you’re not in recovery from bipolar disorder?
Gabe: Potentially.
Lisa: So, you’re telling me that any single thing bad that happens in your life will automatically mean that you are no longer in recovery with
Gabe: No,
Lisa: Bipolar disorder?
Gabe: No, I don’t know why are you adding the word automatically. No, of course not. That’s.
Lisa: Because you just said that’s how you decide you decided. Today is better than the day previously. Also, doesn’t that give you, like, no wiggle room at all on a day to day basis? Are you trying to get every single day of your life better than the day before it? Because that sounds pretty hard.
Gabe: I am simply saying that when it comes to recovery, I do compare this version of Gabe to previous version of Gabes to see how I’m doing, I need some measurement to know if I’m doing better. Otherwise I could just declare myself to be in recovery, determine it to be true, and you could be like, dude, you’re homeless, you’re not taking your medication. Your wife left you, you haven’t showered in six months. But according to you, all I have to do is decide I’m in recovery and it counts. That seems like nonsense.
Lisa: So, you’re saying that the way you determine happiness is by comparing yourself to previous versions of you and deciding if you are happy? OK, I can work with this, then why aren’t you happy right now? This is the best you you’ve ever been. You’re the healthiest you’ve ever been. You’re in the best position with your recovery. You have the most money. You have the most stable relationship. You have the cutest dog. Why are you not happy right this second?
Gabe: I can answer this question with needing ten thousand dollars, right? I need ten thousand dollars.
Lisa: To be happy?
Gabe: No, I just I need ten thousand dollars. It’s an analogy
Lisa: OK
Gabe: Follow along. The goal is ten thousand dollars. Everybody understand? Gabe needs ten thousand dollars. Now you say Gabe, oh, my God, you did it. You have eight thousand dollars. And I say, I know I’m, I don’t have the ten thousand dollars. Well, but this is the most money that you’ve had towards that goal ever. So therefore, you’ve reached the goal. No, the goal is ten thousand dollars. Having eight thousand dollars means I’m still not at goal. Oh my God. You know, when you started this, you had zero and you’ve gone all the way up to eight thousand dollars. This is, in fact, the most money that you’ve had toward the goal ever. You just can’t be at goal. Now, take out the word goal and put in happiness. And there’s the problem. Also, you still haven’t defined the word happiness for me. Ten thousand dollars. That’s an exact number, right? So happiness. I want to know what happiness is. Tell me what happiness is. Everybody looks at me and says, oh, you have to determine that for yourself. It’s internal. You have to decide. Even the sixteenth president, the guy who beat my guy for the quote said, well, most folks are as happy as they make up their mind to be. Well, I guess that is a nice philosophical point and it makes people all warm and fuzzy on the inside. It’s nonsense. It’s literal nonsense.
Lisa: That is a problem.
Gabe: And also, you know, while I’m on the subject, just just while I’m here, Lisa.
Lisa: Yes, please tell me more, Gabe.
Gabe: I just I feel the need to do so. What condescending tripe is that? Oh, you’re dying and you have no money and you have no health insurance and that dog is eating your gangrened leg. Well, just make up your mind to be happy. You’re only as happy as you want to be. Listen up, world. We don’t need to take care of this person dying on the side of the road because they’ve made up their mind to be happy. Wow, that’s fantastic.
Lisa: You’ve got way too many things going at one time.
Gabe: I’ll just sit back and let you respond.
Lisa: Ok, well, it’s going to be a while because you’ve got many things going on here.
Gabe: I’ll be patient.
Lisa: First off, I love your analogies because they are very clearly illustrating everything wrong with your approach to happiness. And incidentally, the reason why you one, are not happy and two will never be happy. Ten thousand dollars represents happiness, right? That’s the analogy.
Gabe: Right, yes.
Lisa: Ok, ten thousand dollars represents happiness. What is your ten thousand dollars? What has to happen for you to reach happiness? Like you said, the ten thousand dollars, that’s clear. It’s exact. We know for sure. Either you have it or you don’t. Done. Do you have such an analogy for happiness? Can you tell me, well if blah blah blah blah then I will be happy? Do you have that?
Gabe: I mean, I do, but
Lisa: Ok, let’s hear it. Go.
Gabe: You’re about to win the arguments,
Lisa: Yes, I am, I know. That’s why I want to continue.
Gabe: I know that I’m about to get checkmated because, of course, there’s been dozens of things.
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: As soon as I get a job, I’ll be happy. As
Lisa: Uh-huh.
Gabe: Soon as I can be self-employed, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get in a relationship, I’ll be happy. As soon as I buy a house, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get divorced from the annoying Lisa, I’ll be happy. As soon as I get a new car, I’ll be happy. As soon as I go on vacation, I’ll be happy. Currently, it’s as soon as the pandemic is over, I’ll be happy.
Lisa: It’s always something that isn’t here yet. Always. You always have one more thing that’s going to make you happy, and then when you achieve that thing, you’re like, well, yeah, I mean, I know I said last month that if I got to this goal, I would be happy. But now that I think about it. I can vividly remember the day you told me, this was before you had gastric bypass, that if you could just weigh 300 pounds, that would be it. You would never ask for anything else. That was all you wanted in life. You would be completely happy. That’s all you needed, was to weigh 300 pounds.
Gabe: In my defense, I was not yet diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so maybe it’s not that I’m unreasonable, it’s that I get new data.
Lisa: Ok, what new data have you gotten?
Gabe: The ten thousand dollars isn’t enough, the reason I wanted ten thousand dollars is because that’s how much the thing that I wanted to buy cost. But in the time it took me to save up the ten thousand dollars. The price.
Lisa: The price went up?
Gabe: Yeah. Now it costs fifteen thousand dollars. I’m not the unreasonable one. Society keeps raising the price of things. Its inflation.
Lisa: Oh, my God,
Gabe: It’s happiness inflation.
Lisa: My eyes are rolling so hard, I think I’m going to have permanent brain damage, Your problem is that society is constantly changing the definition of happiness?
Gabe: They’re raising the happiness price,
Lisa: Oh,
Gabe: It’s inflation.
Lisa: That’s.
Gabe: Yes.
Lisa: That is awesome. There are like no words to even respond to that. That’s how awesome the thing you’ve just said is.
Gabe: So I win, right, I win.
Lisa: No, no, no.
Gabe: You don’t believe in inflation?
Lisa: Happiness inflation, OK, so all right, fine, the happiness inflation has occurred. Now you need fifteen thousand dollars.
Gabe: Yes.
Lisa: What’s the current price then? You can’t tell what the price is going to be with inflation in a year, 10 years, 15 years. But you can tell me what the price is right now. So what is the price right now? Not what is it going to be when you get to the current price? What is it right this second?
Gabe: I need the pandemic to end so I can get back to my job. I want to get back to work,
Lisa: I’m writing that down.
Gabe: I would also like the things with my job to clear up. You know, there’s a lot of transition right now that’s making me uncomfortable.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: I’d like you to drop that tone. That would be helpful.
Lisa: You all heard it here first, listeners. Gabe says that once the pandemic is over and the uncertainty with his job has cleared up and I start being nicer to him, perhaps an unrealistic goal, I’ll give you, he will achieve happiness. So that’s what it’s going to take.
Gabe: Well, I mean, assuming that inflation doesn’t take over
Lisa: Right,
Gabe: I mean,
Lisa: Right, right.
Gabe:..
Are you sad? Just be happy! Does this irritate you? In today's show, Gabe and Lisa ponder whether happiness really is a choice. Transcript included.
